349 Joanna Hennon + Holly ~ Is Social Media Actually Bad For Your Self Esteem?

Read the transcript here:

Holly: Hello and welcome to the Into the Woods podcast, episode 349. This is your host Holly Worton and I am back with another episode with the fabulous Joanna Hennon. Today we talk about social media, is it inherently bad? We hear all kinds of stories of people deleting their Facebook or Instagram accounts, for whatever reason. We also hear people talking about how social media is super-toxic, but is it really?

Here’s what you are going to learn: is social media actually bad for your self esteem? Is social media inherently bad? Why you might want to take a break from social media instead of deleting everything. Why it is so important to actually know the people who show up in your feed and why you have chosen them to be there. What you can do to make your social media feeds feel better. How to set boundaries on social media. How to be more mindful of how you are using social media. How to declutter your social media profiles so they feel better. And we ask the question: should you declutter people and things that make you feel bad? The answer might not be what you expect. We also talk about how to get clear on why certain things make you feel bad on social media. Joanna also explains about how social media fits into the concept of being soul smart, and living as souls having a human experience. We also discuss how can you make social media feel great and include some practical things that you can do today. And finally we include the questions that you need to ask yourself so that you can make your social media feed feel inspiring and great, rather than a drag. So onto this week’s episode.

Holly: Hey Joanna!

Joanna: Hey Holly!

Holly: How are you doing?

Joanna: I’m good, how are you?

Holly: Good, I’m really looking forward to our topic today!

Joanna: Me too, I love social media!

Holly: {laughing} I have had kind of a love-hate with it over the years so I am really looking forward to digging into this topic. So last time we recorded our episode that we did together, at some point in the conversation we asked the question is social media really bad for your self-esteem? Because I think a lot of people think social media is really bad and you need to delete it so that you can feel good about yourself, and I don’t necessarily think that’s the solution, I don’t think it is inherently bad. So let’s dig into this topic, is social media really bad for your self-esteem?

Joanna: I think it can be, because anything that naturally encourages people to post only the highlights has that potential. So we are not even talking about social media in an online business or anything like that, we are talking about social media for a regular person. What are you going to post on Facebook or Instagram, you are going to post yourself making cookies with your kid, right? You are not going to post the moment when he throws the cookies in your face or throws up on you.

Holly: {laughing} Or when you burn the cookies.

Joanna: You might post when you burn the cookies… Usually you are not going to post those other times, you are going to post the ones that you want to share and that you are proud of, that you want to remember. That is a function of Facebook that I have been really enjoying actually, the memories. I really enjoying seeing those pictures come up year after year now of when my son was small. It can be because we are posting a highlight reel.

Holly: I also see occasionally posting the bad stuff that happens because they want support and sympathy, but that is a very small portion of it.

Joanna: Yes, and that is less bad for our self esteem, but I think it is quite bad for our energy in general, because anytime we get sucked into pity we get pulled down, energy-vibration-wise we get pulled down, and it is very difficult to stay in a powerful place and respond to a person in need from a more powerful place, when they are on social media, you don’t know them, and you don’t know the back story, you don’t know their usual patterns. It is much easier to do that with a friend, so that you can lift them back up, rather than you going down to their energetic level. So I think there is another trap in those kinds of posts.

Holly: And those posts like I said are very few and far between compared to the highlight reel posts.

Joanna: Most are a highlight reel because we want to share the good obviously, there is nothing wrong with that, you made cookies – yay you. Or you lost 10 kilos – yay you. Or you are on vacation and having a great time – yay you. It is not a bad thing but I think if we are looking at social media and just consuming, so just scrolling through and you see everybody else having this great time and whatever, while you are under the duvet crying because you can’t be bothered to get out of bed and make toast let along chocolate chip cookies! {laughing} Then it becomes a problem because you think you are lacking in some way.

Holly: I think also, it depends on how you use these things. You can see the other person’s highlight reel and think: oh my god that’s possible for me, here is what I need to do to get there, even though I feel like shit now. Or you can use those same images to feel bad for yourself and beat yourself up. It is all how you use that, you can motivate yourself for good, or you can motivate yourself for bad. I understand that there is mental illness and depression is a real thing, and I don’t even know how to bring this into this conversation.

Joanna: It is not just about depression though, I think when you feel like you are lacking. You know because we have become so isolated, we no longer live in communities, we no longer see the realities of each other’s every day. Maybe you don’t see that the neighbour is in their pyjamas all day and hasn’t left the house in a week, or is so stressed out that they don’t really eat. We don’t see those day-to-day realities because we live isolated in our own little places and so we end up thinking that all more negative stuff that happens to us, or the stuff that we “fail” at, we don’t manage to do our exercise, or all the different things we are supposed to be doing, we think it is just us. And then social media seems to agree because everybody else is making cookies {laughing} and doing Christmas cards in August, just to get a start on things and you are kind of going: er, am I supposed to be doing that too? It is that comparing and assuming that everybody else has their shit together and you are the only one who doesn’t. I don’t think social media creates that it just exacerbates it.

Holly: But again, I think we are also responsible for how we respond to this stuff. I think that when people say: social media is bad, you need to delete it. I think those people are not taking responsibility for how they are choosing to respond because we choose how to respond to things. I can look at people’s before and after weight loss pictures and say: oh my God that is so inspiring, I aspire to that. Or I can be: this will never happen to me, I suck, they are so perfect at whatever fasting method they are using… or I don’t know, whatever.

Joanna: I agree we do have a choice, that is with anything, right? We could be having the same conversation about money, also neutral, and you could take it to mean all sorts of things. So I totally agree that we have a choice. We also have a choice not to take what we see online as personal commentary on our own life. Those are two separate things, somebody else making cookies doesn’t mean…

Holly: Doesn’t mean that you are a lazy person who eats store bought cookies! {laughing}

Joanna: The thing is you make up these stories, I will even share one with you. I have a person in my life who has a young child and she is constantly doing these things with her child. She was doing all these posts about finger painting and whatever and every time she posted I would feel so bad about myself because I would be like: oh my God I never did that with my son, I am such a horrible person, look how much fun they are having… how much fun he would have had if only I had been less selfish and done this with him and made the time to do this messy, annoying thing… that is finger painting with a toddler! {laughing}

Holly: {laughing} Because it is going to take you an hour to clean up after it.

Joanna: And an hour to set it up, right? And I was beating myself up and then trying to make myself feel better: oh I am not so bad, I have given him these experiences or these experiences instead. But what happened afterwards, a week later, Facebook put a memory in my feed of a photo of me and him fingerprinting.

Holly: Oh wow! Thank you Facebook!

Joanna: And I thought: oh my God, I just had a story about not being a good enough mother and so anything I see has the potential to feed that story and it had nothing to do with the truth! First of all the fingerprinting has nothing to do with whether or not I am a good mother or not, some people have the time and inclination and some people don’t and either is fine. In this particular case I didn’t remember that when he was that small I also did those things with him. {laughing} We are not doing it now because he is bigger…

Holly: Yeah exactly.

Joanna: So we do have a choice and we have to be really aware of the thoughts and stories that come up, especially the stories, what story is it feeding, whatever you are seeing on social media? What is it making you feel not good enough about? Are you not earning enough money? Are you not taking enough vacations? Are you a bad mother? Are you a bad business owner? In which ways are you deficient? What is being brought to light…

Holly: Yes, yes, I think when we are triggered by people’s social media posts we need to stop and take the time and say: why, why am I triggered by this? And as you said what story is this feeding? What story is this reinforcing? What limiting beliefs is this reinforcing? And then we can use that triggering for personal growth rather than being: ah, I feel bad about myself!

Joanna: Sometimes it gets so bad that I think you do have to take a break from social media and from everything. I have known people in situations like that as well, is it the right choice to completely go off social media or not, I don’t know. But possibly. And if you feel that is the right choice then fine. And just because you go off social media it doesn’t mean that triggers will disappear because your neighbour will be making cookies! {laughing}

Holly: Exactly, exactly! I think this is really important and as you said sometimes we need to take a break. Some people talk about: I deleted Facebook, I deleted Instagram, I deleted these apps from my phone, I am no longer using them. That is super extreme, and you can do that, and maybe that is the right thing for you ad maybe there is a middle ground which is taking a break for a while. Plenty of people I have seen people over the years say: I am taking a month off social media and that might be another thing you try. I am going to take two weeks off, a month off, six months off… whatever, and then see how your life is different but as you said you are still going to get the triggers from another place.

Joanna: Yes, you have to deal with your own stuff really no matter where it is coming from, right?

Holly: Exactly it’s either going to come from social media, or it is going to come from people in your life.

Joanna: You know, another thing to say about this is that we really shouldn’t be spending our entire days scrolling through other people’s Instagram and Facebook posts, of course that is going to make you feel bad because you are not actually living, you are sitting on your coach scrolling, right? So only you can know how bad the problem is. These things are designed to hook you in, to get you addicted. They are actually built that way for a reason so that you never leave.

Holly: Obviously, obviously. So if you feel the need to take a break from social media be aware why you are doing it. Are you doing it because people’s shit is triggering you, is it because you are spending too much time? And that is a very good reason to limit your time. With the iPhone you can set limits on certain apps, you can say only a half-hour on Facebook and then, but for people who don’t have good self control that is a very valid thing.

Joanna: I have no self-control around Facebook and that thought just terrifies me {laughing}: no phone is telling me 30 minutes only!

Holly: You can put whatever time you want on it and then it will say: your time is almost up on Facebook and then you can say: remind me in 15 minutes, or you can say: disable for the day. It brings to your awareness just how much time you have spent, which I think is useful.

Joanna: I don’t know, I don’t really find a problem with how much time I spend on it, as what I find, for me, the problem is what I am doing on it. If I am mindlessly scrolling, sometimes I notice that I am scrolling and the things I am actually clicking on, or paying attention to are the drama things: somebody had a problem and let’s see what’s the solutions are. Or something happened and we are going to be bitching about this other person… And so I notice now, I am like: what am I doing? Joanna what are you doing with your time? You are just getting sucked into other people’s drama what are you trying to avoid in your own life {laughing} what are you using this to distract you from? So I don’t mind if I am on Facebook for hours every day, if what I am doing brings me joy, for me that’s connection, right? So that feeds me, if I am online actually having conversations with people then I don’t particularly care if that has taken six hours of my day. That doesn’t bother me at all, because it is experiences that have enriched me in some way or fed me in some way, right?

Holly: Right absolutely. So we talked about taking a break the other things we can do to improve the way we use social media or to make the social media experience better for us?

Joanna: I guess it’s awareness: when do you feel good and when you do you feel bad? There are lots of things to love about social media as well. So what kinds of things make you feel happy and what kinds of things don’t? The kinds of posts you see are also important. I am going through my Twitter account at the moment because I find my Twitter feed extremely boring because when I started it I followed all the news organisations and then I followed a bunch of business coaches because that was my focus at the time, but now I go on there and there is nothing on there that I want to look at or read so I am unfollowing.

Holly: Yes I really need to declutter my Twitter feed. Also you can create lists on Twitter so if you have got lists of podcasters that you like, or business people that you like, or news stuff that you like, or whatever your hobby is: camping or hiking, you can create lists of just those people and then just go in and look at that list and that is really useful.

Joanna: Oh that is useful.

Holly: So you can segment your people you are following into stuff that you really care about.

Joanna: I think I actually need to do that, that is kind of an ongoing project. This is another thing, for me social media is for connection and if I connect with people it doesn’t have an influence on my self esteem or energy or whatever. And it has really started to bother me that I follow people that I don’t know, there is a name that pops up and I don’t know why I am following them, what I clicked on, I must have liked something at some point to follow them in the first place. I don’t know who they are, from just the name I don’t know whether they are a business person or a spiritual person, I don’t know and have no idea and that started to bug me.

Holly: Oh I just unfollow them.

Joanna: Now I am unfollowing those because I would like to be able to say that I know the people.

Holly: Or I am so interested in their posts, even though I don’t know who they are, I want to get to know them because their posts are really interesting and thought provoking.

Joanna: If they are thought provoking then you will know: oh yes, this is the person with the thought provoking posts, so know in that sense. I remember working with a business mentor years ago and she would pride herself on knowing, not personally, obviously, but knowing pretty much everyone on her list.

Holly: Oh wow.

Joanna: And I thought this was really cool so we are going to give her a shoutout – so it is Tash Corbin.

Holly: Oh yeah.

Joanna: She used to say this and she has grown since then so…

Holly: I doubt she knows everyone on her list these days. {laughing}

Joanna: Back then she certainly did and she would pride herself on that. She would know something, she would recognise names, people were also on her Facebook group and she would just know something about them maybe not huge amounts but she would at least she recognise the names and I thought that was so cool. In fact, I am going to rephrase that as I was like: what! That doesn’t matter numbers matter. {laughing} Now, I am like: oh my God that is so cool and I think that is what I am doing with my own social media. I want to be able to place the people who show up in my feed and if it bothers me on Facebook when I get posts that are super-wonderful, say somebody has had a a baby or somebody is pregnant, or somebody got engaged and they are so happy and they are posting all these photos and this announcement and I don’t know who the f*** they are. It bugs me, I am like: why are you sharing your joy with me when there is no connection.

Holly: Yeah. Well they are sharing their joy to the world and you are part of their world but you don’t give a shit because you don’t know who they are.

Joanna: It is not that I don’t give a shit, it just bothers me that they are sharing such personal, meaningful stuff with me when I have no idea, usually, which continent they are. I think there is something wrong with that and there used to be this movement to get to know the people in your audience and message them privately or whatever but that is kind of considered spam-y but on the other hand it is nice to have an actual connection with the people whose views you are getting.

Holly: I agree. You know as we have been having this conversation right now I have been thinking that in the last couple of weeks I have met up for a walk with someone who is on my email list, who I actually met in person years ago and she has been on my list and we met up for a walk and it was lovely and I had a Skype chat with someone who has also been on my list. And that has been so great and I have been thinking: I don’t want to fill up my calendar with calls with people but I would like to have a few calls with people on my list, or ask them to respond to an email ,and let me know who they are or something because I would like to have more of a relationship with them, because the two experiences I have had in the last couple of weeks have been really great… connecting with people! And they have both said: I really like getting your emails for different reasons but it was really great to meet these people who have been receiving my emails every week for the past I don’t know how many years… connection.

Joanna: I have been really thinking about that as well and we should have a separate private conversation about that as well. Brainstorm a little bit about how to do this. I think I a really going in that direction as well and it does really extend to social media as well. I want to know about the people whose news I am getting, I want to care about them. I want to know who they are and if I don’t know who they are or why they are in my feed I am not heartless, but if we don’t have a connection my caring level is a bit low.

Holly: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for me, as you said earlier, social media is all about connection, connecting with people, and I feel at some point it became more about the numbers and how many likes or followers you have. And I feel like we are kind of coming back to true connection rather than superficial connections.

Joanna: Some of us are, some of us are.

Holly: True.

Joanna: So we can declutter people we don’t know, that is probably going to really improve your social media experience because if all the stuff that you are seeing…I am not saying just you friends, let’s be really clear here, but you should know who they are: you know that Liz Gilbert wrote that book that you liked, or Holly talks to trees, you know something about them and you are interested in what they are creating or wondering what they are going to do next, whatever that is. Wouldn’t it be wonderful to have your feed filled with that rather than people you don’t really know doing these wonderful things in Bali? You know! {laughing}

Holly: Yes exactly. I spent the last few months on and off deleting business people because I was following all the online business people for so long and I have been trying to get rid of that from my feed and also from my newsletters and starting to follow more authors, because I wanted to be inspired by authors and not typical online business people because I have had enough of that. So I want to be inspired by authors who are doing the thing that I want to be doing to bring in money. So that has been a big shift for me as well. I have changed in how I am running my business and bringing in money so I am changing the people I am following because I want to learn from a different group of people.

Joanna: I think just offer a slightly different perspective, my approach isn’t as clear cut, it is not moving from business to author, whatever, so the line of who to declutter is a bit you know just not as clear, let’s say. I have kept some business people, once in a while I really enjoy their content and so I keep them. I have kind of let go of all the people I no longer want to learn from or who I disagree with in some way in terms of – this is for business stuff specifically – I know now, I am not now in a I don’t know what I am doing place, and my approach is different to their approach and it is never going to mesh.

Holly: So it is no longer useful for you to be reading their stuff.

Joanna: Yeah. I think the question to ask yourself really, sorry Holly I think I interrupted you there, but you brought up a really nice phrasing of it and I think we should highlight it, the question to ask yourself is: who do you want to be inspired by? Right? Because you want your social media feed to be inspiring and that doesn’t mean all positive, but it means inspiring, who do you want to be inspired by? And ask yourself that question about each of the people that you follow. You might not listen to their podcast, you might not buy their books, it might just be for their Instagram feed or for their Facebook feed but \you need to take something positive from that exchange of you reading their posts.

Holly: Like I just followed this photographer yesterday on Instagram and I was looking at her profile and I was lives oh she lives in Maryland or something and thought I am never going to work with her obviously but I was looking through her feed and her photographs are so beautiful I just want to see them in my feed even thought I am never going to work with her probably unless I take a trip across the Atlantic. It was just so lovely I just wanted to see her feed.

Joanna: And that is beautiful and you should totally message and tell her that. I don’t think we do enough of that either!

Holly: Yeah you are right, you are right.

Joanna: This is totally not social media related but I am going to tell it anyway, we don’t give each other enough of that positive feedback I think just randomly and in recent years one of the times that I did it when it was most appreciated as I emailed my dentist, so I have this huge dentist phobia and I cry every time and it is really horrible. And I had to have something complex done and we did it and I survived and it was all right and whatever, and the next day I emailed them and I said: thank you, you really handled it as well as you could have under the circumstances and I just really appreciate that you were there with me for this horrible thing. They replied and they said: we never get messages like that! {Both: laughing} Nobody ever sends us things! I just think if you like this woman’s photo, what a beautiful thing to do to tell her. I don’t think we act on those impulses.

Holly: I agree and I like saying nice things to people when I genuinely like what they do. Yesterday I was on television on This Morning with this lovely woman Alison Hammond and I was thinking about sending her a message on Instagram saying: you are such a lovely human being. It was great to work with you for an hour yesterday and meet you.

Joanna: Do it!

Holly: She is just genuinely lovely.

Joanna: I think we think these things and then we don’t act on them because it has become awkward, or people become suspicious, I really don’t know why. I know people think I am a little bit crazy, or I get the impression that people think I am a little bit crazy, I tell the lady in the street that she has a nice skirt.

Holly: Yes I do that too sometimes, not as much as I would like to but yes.

Joanna: Why wouldn’t you if you have thought it. That is another thing we could be using social media for, cheering each other on and if you like somebody’s thing tel them, it doesn’t need to be…even if there is an expectation that maybe you will buy something from them in the future., who cares? It is still your own choice whether you will buy or not so… that was a bit rant-y wasn’t it Holly?

Holly: No, no that’s an important point, connecting in a beautiful way and I fully recognise the fact that I have been both in the offline and online world and don’t say the nice things to people as much as I would like to.

Joanna: I think that would make not just the world a better place but also the social media world a better place.

Holly: So, what about we talked about decluttering people you don’t know and you don’t know why you followed them in the first place but what about decluttering people that make you feel bad? That trigger your insecurities and trigger your stuff, is that a good thing or is that a bad thing because I know I have unfollowed a couple people that I didn’t want to unfriend but I also didn’t want to see them in my feed because they were triggering my insecurities and my shit and I am fully conscious of having done that on at least a couple of occasions.

Joanna: My view is that there is a fine line there because yes if somebody’s posts are making you fall into fear all the time or making you feel like shit then why put yourself through that right? But I think there is a bit of a trap there because we could end up decluttering anybody who has a different opinion and anybody who challenges us, and only surround ourselves with like-minded, pleasant, run-of-the-mill people and then we don’t grow. I think there is a difference between somebody making you feel like shit in a bad way or in a good way? Because, sometimes something you say to me, because Holly challenges me, our friendship has that in it that challenges, she is not going to be like: oh yeah you are right, she is going to be like that: no, what about this and stop doing that. It doesn’t make me feel like shit it challenges me to think in a different way and to see something from a different perspective and approach something from a different angle and sometimes I disagree and I think about it and say: no Holly, what I am saying is right for me. Then that’s ok but there is a challenge there to grow and start thinking differently or become more sure of the way you are thinking. If you delete all those people and declutter them from your social media account there is not going to be that growth opportunity and you will find that you are not really creating more of what you want in your life you are going to keep getting more of the same.

Holly: I think there is a big difference between people whose posts are inherently toxic and people who are just triggering your shit. So going back to the finger painting example, one thing would be unfollowing a woman who is always finger painting with her child because it triggers your stuff and another thing would be unfollowing a woman who says: if you don’t spend three hours a day finger painting with your son or daughter you are a bad parent. That is toxic and weird and I would totally unfollow that but the first example is just something to look at.

Joanna: So I think that we need to make that distinction and that goes a little bit into fear based marketing and that we will get from people trying to sell stuff, from business owners or companies who are also not inherently bad and people we should unfollow, right? But become aware of the place people are coming at you, are they coming at you from a place of trying to get so that you take a certain action, you know that: if you don’t get this sorted you will never be successful. You know?

Holly: Yes fear-based marketing.

Joanna: Yes, basically fear-based marketing; or are they coming from a place of love and sharing? Sometimes it can be a little bit deceptive because it may seem that the post is coming from a place of love or sharing but it is not, it could be trying to trigger a positive emotion and then reel you in at the end. So just for yourself just see which ones challenge you to think differently and to consider things. Holly I think we have talked about it several times over the past few years, this need to go deeper and beyond the surface. And I think social media can play a role in that because we have access to so many different experiences and opinions and perspectives. So to use social media as a tool for growth, to challenge you: okay something triggers you, why? What story is that feeding? How can I look at this differently? Is she right or am I right? It is not about agreement but it is about considering things at a deeper level and really thinking about them rather than just accepting black or white, as somebody has painted it for you.

Holly: Or finger painted it for you! {laughing} Ideally.

Joanna: With cookies!

Holly: So what about and this was something we were chatting before we hit record, what about business influencers and online gurus that tell you to unfollow everything else and just listen to them? I haven’t noticed this as much.

Joanna: They haven’t said it this way but I have seen several people in the past few months trying to get people to go on a learning ban or to declutter, that they are listening to too many people and so they should declutter that and choose one or two. It is always meant… I don’t feel like it is meant in a really giving way. I think it means follow me and unfollow everyone else. So I think there is a problem there as well, I always have several people I am learning from at the same time, I never learn from just one person and I really like it that way. I really, really, like to have different perspectives, I will even learn and follow people who talk about similar topics from different perspectives because I am interested in making up my own mind and it is interesting for me to see other people’s thought processes and then I can make up my own mind based on that. So I would be a little bit wary of someone who basically tells you to follow them. I know that we shouldn’t be spending our own lives watching free webinars, right? That is also not the way to move forward, but just take that personal power back and know for yourself: who inspires you to be the best version of you, to lead your best life, to be fulfilled, and satisfied, and happy, and who does not?

Holly: Yes.

Joanna: I think we need to talk about social media as something that is active and makes us feel bad.

Holly: Yeah, yeah.

Joanna: Versus letting us and making us feel bad.

Holly: I think we control how we respond to things and we are responsible for how we respond to things. It is the Shakespeare quote: nothing is either good or bad but thinking makes it so.

Joanna: Yes and I think that is important because we do this in all sorts of areas. Maybe this one friend always makes you feel bad, or this one coach always makes you feel bad. They don’t make you feel bad, you are letting them make you feel bad and usually it is reflecting something in you.

Holly: They do a thing, or they say a thing, and then your respond.

Joanna: So that is just… we have touched about this at the beginning of this episode as well but I think it is so important that it should be spelled out. Social media and what other people post it doesn’t have that power, so don’t give it that power, to lower your self-esteem or make you feel bad. That is always a personal choice. That power piece, the way that phrasing came out is quite interesting, that’s what it is, staying in your own power, essentially staying true to yourself. For  me that is the whole soul smart concept that I work with, looking at things from the perspective of you being a soul aside from the human being you are currently being.That means staying true to yourself, staying in your power and not letting things sway you one way or the other, but knowing that you are enough and that you are okay, no matter what the external stuff is, you know what is right for you, you know who you should unfollow. You know who inspires you and who makes you fall into a deep pit of despair, once you become conscious participants that every time this particular person appears in your feed you end up feeling crappy or you end up having cookies for dinner. I think I need cookies because I am talking about cookies a lot!

Holly: Yes, cookies are coming up, it is a common thread in this episode.

Joanna: I need to get a cookie. {Both: laughing}

Holly: Are you going to make them yourself or use store bought cookies, because that is going to depend on what listeners think of you. {laughing}

Joanna: Totally! I am going to make them myself but not to make you feel bad it is just that I am currently not eating store bought cookies for health reasons so I am going to have to make themselves if I want one. So there you go.

Holly: So I think the soul smart concept is really important to talk about here because we talk about personal growth, personal development, the soul’s journey, so we are souls having a human experience. From this perspective why would a soul be interested in spending time on social media, isn’t it a waste of time?

Joanna: No. The way I see it, from the soul’s perspective you are already fine, there is no personal development, there is no working on yourself, those concepts don’t exist because you are everything that you need to be. So the soul smart way of approaching social media and everything else in life really it is what we talked about, using it as an opportunity to know yourself better, to be more of you. So that is why we want you to look at things that challenge you and not just declutter everybody who makes you feel bad. That’s why we want you to think about different things from different perspectives so that you can get clearer on who you are and just be more of you and sink more deeply into yourself and your own power, your own personal being. That is how it fits into being soul smart, because social media can help us do that. The people you bump into in your little village or grocery store they probably won’t talk to you so they won’t do that but social media people are posting their opinions all the time, which means that you have tons of opportunities to get to know yourself better. What do I think about that? Is that true? What is true for me? Keep asking yourself: is this true for me? And if you don’t know, explore. And that’s being soul smart it is allowing yourself to growth, is a good word but it is not because you want to become something else, it is because more deepening than growth, more sinking into than being bigger.

Holly: Exactly, I talked a lot about knowing yourself and the importance of knowing who you are and how that makes everything easier and better and more joyful and more fantastic in life because the more you know yourself the better able you will be to make decisions for yourself. So stay on your path and be true to yourself.

Joanna: Yeah, and it is true to yourself in your personality but true to yourself in your greatness. At soul level you are greatness so leaning more into that and trusting more of those nudges and your intuition and all that stuff, social media is a good tool for that because it constantly triggers, it constantly gives you something to play with and it constantly gives you something to react to.

Holly: Definitely. So how can you make social media, how can we make social media feel great? How can we turn it from a toxic environment or a “meh” environment to something that feels really great and inspiring, what can you do?

Joanna: That is such a personal question because it depends what you want or need right now. There was a time when my whole feed was business coaches and business inspiration and business growth stuff and I loved it. Every time I went on social media I would get: three tips to do this and five steps to do this. And I loved all that stuff it was exactly what I needed, those bite sized pieces that I could use that made me think about: oh maybe I should do this strategy or that strategy and that was I needed at the time. Then last year I found all my social media feeds to be boring and I stopped going on social media because I thought: I don’t seem to connect with anybody and the stuff that is in there I don’t really care about. I care about the people but I don’t necessarily care about what they are doing because it is not of any interest to me at this stage and so I switched things around and now I follow a lot of different people and I have a lot of different things in my feed. One of my things that I have done with my Instagram feed especially, so listeners will know that we are manifesting a move to Galway, to Ireland, which should be very, very, soon now and one of the things I have done with my Instagram fed I follow anyone who has anything to do with Galway. Anything at all, all the restaurants, all the photographers, all the yoga studios. I mean anybody, even random people who live in Galway and anybody I come across and so my feed is more of a… it is not an aspirational feed but it is an inspiring feed for me because I know that is going to be my life soon. That has been a really, that has brought a lot of joy to my social media to have that aspect included in with other things that I care about. You really need to ask yourself: Holly you have all authors or mostly authors?

Holly: I am still in transition to that and I really need to sit down and make a list of authors because… I need to sit down and make a list of authors that I really want to focus on following. Right now there is one big-named person, Joanna Penn, who I follow but she is one person. I want ten people like her.

Joanna: So if you have suggestions send them to Holly.

Holly: Yes please.

Joanna: So which authors have a good social media presence and are inspiring in that world?

Holly: Not just that but people who are self-publishing and making a good living from their books.

Joanna: So what do you need right now? What do you care about? What kind of people would you like to talk to in real life, what kinds of people would you like to talk to? And those people you want to follow, those are the people that will uplift you and raise your energy and show you what is possible.

Holly: And also what are the sorts of things you want to learn? I have learned so much on social media, people often talk about Reddit being a really toxic place and of course it can be like anything else but I got into fasting from Reddit, I have learned so much about fasting from Reddit. I have learned about so many practical things like hair care, you know a few years ago my hair was super frizzy and I hated it and started doing research and came across the curly hair subreddit and my hair is not curly but it is wavy and I have to treat it differently otherwise it gets like a pouf ball. So what do you want to learn, what do you want to learn more about whether it is spending more time in the outdoors, camping, hiking, I follow so many camping and hiking subreddits because I love seeing people’s pictures of where they are going, where they are camping. Now it is winter and I am not spending that much time outdoors so I want to see what other people are doing.

Joanna: I think that learning piece is really important as well, I follow a lot of food bloggers and people like that because I am interested in cooking. I follow a lot of people who read interesting books because I like to get book recommendations. So it really depends on you. Really treat your social media stuff as your personal space so these are the people who will inspire you to make your vision for your life a reality. And that is not a success goal type thing. Although goals could be included, if you want to run a business, or grow a business, by all means find some people to follow, I still follow several business people because I am not starting out anymore I still want to grow and try new things and be inspired by what other people are doing. But I also follow people, as I said the Galway stuff. I also follow several Polish food bloggers.

Holly: Yum.

Joanna: It is not for the recipes, it is, I don’t know, I just like having something Polish in my feed once in a while since I am Polish. I am not very in touch with that original identity but it gives me an extra something and so it makes me happy when those things show up in my feed. So really make sure that your feed feels good to you and only you can know what will do that. When I decided to change my social media stuff so that my feeds on Instagram, on Facebook, on Twitter, are interesting and fun and uplifting and inspiring and all that I had no idea where to start. So if you are like that don’t worry, just look around. Just start paying attention: who makes you feel good and who makes you feel bad. Who is interesting and who is boring.

Holly: And maybe start decluttering to clear up your feed and then start adding people and things that are interesting to you. All right is there anything else we need to add here? I feel like we have kind of…

Joanna: Yes, I feel like we are done. We could say lots of other things about social media but I feel like we are done and the point of this was to help people kind of sort out their own social media so that it is not so tiring, so that it can be a tool for growth, for personal growth, and for reality creation and to just feel good, it is a big part of our lives these days so why wouldn’t it feel good?

Holly: Yes and sometimes when I unfollow people I feel like: what if they notice? People aren’t going to notice and if they do, who cares. So do what’s right for you and don’t worry about hurting other people’s feelings, because if you do hurt their feelings because you unfollowed them that is something they are going to have to work on.

Joanna: You want to really focus on who is showing up in your feed and how that means you feel and if your feed isn’t a nice place to be or not, that’s it, because it is yours, it is your space.

Holly: That’s it and nothing is good or bad it is what you make of it. All right, great. Happy social media decluttering and following. {Both: laughing}

Joanna: Feel free to find us on social media and reach out and say hi, that would be really cool if we could connect on social media. I think we are both pretty easy to find so that’s no problem and send us a DM or a PM or whatever is appropriate on that particular platform and say hi, you heard this episode and you are making your own social media feel better to you. That would be really awesome we would love to talk to you.

Holly: and tell us what you are doing to make your social media feel better, maybe you are following new food people or whatever, that would be fun to hear. So thank you.

Holly: Hope you enjoyed this week’s episode I will be back next week with another solo show, in the meantime please drop me a line and let me know what you thought about this topic, what you thought about our perspectives and most importantly what actions have you decided to take, or what actions have you already taken, to change your social media feed and how it looks and who you are following and what have you done, I would love to hear from you. So drop me a line at [email protected] or find me online on social media and get in touch there. Also I would love for you to join me on Patreon if you get value from this podcast, please head over to: http://Patreon.com/HollyWorton and you can join me there. Membership starts at just $1 a month and you get exclusive access to stuff that I don’t share anywhere else. Thank you so much listening and remember to visit the show notes at: https://hollyworton.com/349 for all the links and stuff that we talked about. Thank you, thank you, thank you and have a great week.